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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GodMen
by Stever
Ziobuck - thank you for the response, I will try and address your comments here Ziobuck wrote: <> Considering the fact that the substance of what I have been saying is mostly in opposition to the major elements of the God Men movement, I really can't disagree with you that my posts were not "edifying". However, my intention is not to be divisive, but only to challenge men that lean in this direction to honestly question and test whether this be of God. I would also hasten to mention at this point that just because some thing is 'divisive' does not necessarily mean that it is not of God. Do you always agree with what God wants for your life or does it cut against your natural way thinking at first? And then think of what the Lord Jesus himself said: in Matt 10:34 ' Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.' The truths of God are like a double edged sword, and they will cut and divide. Let us not forget Isaiah 55:9 'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts'. Sadly however, one of the mantras of the new evangelical church movement is not to say or teach anything that might cause people to be offended or dis interested in coming to church. We sacrifice the commands of Christ on the alter of not offending any unbelievers. Now instead of discipling believers to teach the nations the commands of Christ Like Jesus told us to do, we went out and interviewed the unchurched people who where sitting in their living rooms watching TV every evening and asked them what they would like in a church experience. And therein my friends lies the mandate for the New Evangelicalism that has been very successful at sweeping people up out their lazy boys and ushering them into huge Mega complexes that now rock and plug them into "Jesus". But is it that same Jesus that the Apostle Paul preached when he said: "For me to live is Christ and to die is gain"? I question whether the two are compatible. I am getting off on a tangent again it appears. Ziobuck wrote: <> I have been to a PK event, and there is a lot of excitement, no question. There is something very powerful when 50,000 men are singing with all their strength and all their hearts "How Great Thou Art". I have been there, that was many years ago. In fact I am a firm believer that if there is going to be any significant movement for God - it will have to be carried by the men. God designed us to be the spiritual leaders. If we as men do not rise up and become the men that God intends for us to be, the enemy will surely plunder our treasures (wife and children) and take us captive at his will, and we will be slaves to self and sin and the ways of the world. I know these rallies can be exciting and life changing, but does it really prove that it is of God? The enemies of God are also in a battle for the souls of men and one of Satan's top priorities is to try and deceive the elect of God if that were possible. We already know that he is deceiving the nations. I just want to challenge you to be careful to what is appealing. God is usually far away from all the things that are appealing to men. Ziobuck wrote: <> Perhaps I have been led astray - I am certainly not above or beyond being deceived. I have learned some things but I am always in the process of new learning. I do have notions about God, the question is: are those notions on the same page as God would have them to be? I hope so, but at the same time I need to press on toward the mark, I only know in part and can see through a glass darkly. Ziobuck wrote: <> God has not ordained music to bring others to Christ. He ordained the foolishness of preaching for that purpose. Man always wants to use other 'cool' means to do God's work. However God is not obligated to change His ways, in order to be in step with man. Notice also that many churches have "worship leaders", I haven't found that office in the New Testament church. Does God really want to use Rock Music to win others to Christ? I haven't found that in the Bible either. Why is it that we Christians think we need to imitate the world in order to bring them to Christ? Jesus said we are the light of the world, and yet we clothe ourselves in the darkness that is of the world and hope they will join our church. Jesus said just let your light shine so they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in heaven. They really don't want us to be like them anyhow. Doesn't the world offer enough carnal entertainment? Why does the church feel its mission is to better at it? Ziobuck wrote: <> Dear Ziobuck sir, I agree with presenting our bodies as living sacrifices according to Romans 12:1, and while we are there, lets add verse 2 also ... And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. I have no doubt that you trust your friend Brad Stine to be genuine. I have listened to him speak and I have seen the passion and sincerity he has for what he is doing. And I hope every blessing to be upon him. I just think there may be some wisdom in questioning the movement with some tough questions before getting too excited. If it is of God, how can a miserable fellow like me even think about stopping it? Far be it from me to be in the way when God is at work. Also, if it truly is of God, then all of what I say will be as the chaff that gets blown away in the wind. In the off chance that it may not be of God, then there could be chance that my writings will get some new springs as you say. Either way, God's truth will triumph, and the church will prevail against the Gates of Hell.>> Ziobuck wrote: <> Children are always a relevant subject to Christianity. Jesus had a special love for them and I believe I was commenting on the abortion issue and children are certainly related to that. Stever
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